Thread:Dragonus Nesha/@comment-2168633-20170817185855/@comment-26500386-20170817222632

ExcelCore wrote: I'm not making fun of gender identity. Like I said, gender dysphoria is a serious illness. People that suffer from it often become outcasts in society and even when they have an operation, they dont' become happy. The commit suicide.

And that is exactly why we shouldn't make light of it. Proper pronouns are important. What people need isn't virtue signaling, it is people that actually listen.

Again, please look up the history of what gender actually means. Gender is a pronoun used to describe sex. If you believe this to be scientifically untrue, I suggest you actually visit your local library. Don't just believe the crap they spoon feed you in genderstudies.

What Twice says does not matter. It is not proof of anything. It just shows us that he saw Magne as a woman. I'm not saying he was lying, I am saying that what Twice thought on the matter has no relevance at all.

Magne's friend isn't irrelavant. Both of them were Okama.

By several pages referring to Magne as a she, are you talking about the translations? because that isn't how Japanese works. There are no pronouns in Japanese. So unless you actually provide us with some actual examples from the raw, you shouldn't say stuff like this.

And finally Tiger. Tiger WAS a woman and might actually still be one. What you fail to recognize are the differences though.

1. In the BnHa universe there migh actually be somebody with a quirk that can change the sex of people. So Tiger might have had their sex changed by such a quirk.

2. If this is the case then Tiger would not be a transgender, but rather a man that used to be a woman.

3. Tiger changed their gender because they were in love with Ragdoll and wanted to be a man for her. So the change of sex as it was explained, was actually due to homosexuality and not transgenderism.

4. Tiger for all appearances looks like a man, so whatever was done we can infer that it probably was successful. Magne however also looks like a man and acts like an Okama while having friends that are Okama.

See the difference here? Or are you saying that saying you are a woman and putting on lipstick is the same as actually having surgury? Oh boy, big one here.

It's quite clear that you're angry here and like to think of gender as binary - Which is scientifically untrue. The fact you seem to believe "genderstudies" is a thing pretty much validates all of this. It's an argument I see in various places, typically by far right winged transphobes who like to use these old, tired arguments to validate an aincent point that they don't like because it's too complicated for them to understand. As science has evolved, so has our understanding. the common opinion, one that was supposedly back by science, was that white people were superior - We don't anymore, it's called progress.

You are right though. None binary, and no conforming gendered people do kill themselves a lot - Mainly due to the sheer ignorance that people like you are displaying. They kill themselves not because they are confused, but because they feel unwelcome, and disgusting, because of the amount of abuse that it hurled towards them for having the courage to be themselves. You don't get to act this way, and then claim "Isn't it such a shame that they shoot themselves". You don't get to have it both ways. That's not how this works. That's not how this is going to go.

Let me explain gender to you - Gender is a mental identification. It exists upon a spectrum, and some people may identify with their biological sex, and many others won't. Sex is your biological gender - Male or female. even then, there are exceptions, like hermaphrodites. There is a reason medical forms ask for Sex, not Gender - so they know what they're biologically working with, not what they're working with regarding someones identification.

But enough "Genderschooling", lets get back to the wiki reasons why you're just wrong.

Magne's friend is irrelevant because they tell us absolutely nothing about Magne's identity. This person means next to nothing in the discussio, unless you're seriously implying you think transgender people are only friends with other transgender people. Because that's all I can think that you're trying to imply.

Twice respects Magne, and as such, he would refer to her in the way that she felt most comfortable with. They were clearly on good terms with one another, and as such, Twice would see her however she wished to be seen. Therefore, Twice is not only a reliable source, but he's currently the only solid provider of information regarding Mange's identity that we have. What you're suggesting is "I disagree with Twice, so let's ignore what he has said in favour of my own personal preferences" which isn't how a Wiki works in any way whatsoever. You don't get to ignore some of the only existing confirmation about Magne's gender. That's not what a Wiki is for.

With regards to Magne's transistions, many characters refer to her with the honourific for "chan", typically used for females, or very close male friends. since the leauge isn't that close to one another, especially since this is from when they all barely knew one another, we can infer this to be a female honourific - One that is also used for transgender women. "Magne - Chan" would therefore be refering to Magne as a female.

And now to adress your arguments about Tiger and other transgende rissues with number points.

1 - Nope. Kohei specifically stated "He transisted in Tailand" within the Manga. So he's not only a male, he's had an operation to change his body to me more male, and transistioned - Not had the use of a Sex change Quirk. And seriously, a sex change Quirk? I feel like I know exactly where you got this idea from - And you do know that's a fan comic, right?

2 - In this case, Tiger would be a transgender male. As it is impossible, scientifically at this time, to fully change ones gender, the term "Transgender male" would still be applicable.

3 - ....What, the hell are you talking about? You do realize lesbianism is a fairly accepted thing inside Japan, yes? Not as much as it is in the west, but they do offer social security for Lesbian couples, as well as same sex couples overall. It's more accepted than a male couple would be. Plus, literally no evidence exists to suggest that the two are together, or in love in any way. The only thing I can possibly think of was him comforting her over her lost Quirk -  Thats a ship - I ship Izuku and Mina, I'm not pointing out Izuku's pain at the five remidial students being taken away for remidial classes being him deeply saddened by the love of his life being taken from him for a few hours. Unless I'm missing something serious, this literally makes zero sense.

4 - You... Are actually implying transgender people are only friends with other transgender people. I don't actually have the words for that. So I'm just gonna keep focused on Tiger - It is very likely that as a woman, Tiger identified as a male, and had an operation to his body to better convey that feeling he had. That's literally the majority of the reason most people have sex change operations. And this may surprise you, but many men do have long hair, claim to be a woman, and then put lip stick on. Coloquially, they're refered to as "Drag Queens." Magne's long hair is probably a sign of her identification as a female, as were her large lips.

While I've been typing, this came up -

"Where does Horikoshi ever state that he wants Magne to be female? If he did, don't you think he would have created a female character? Magne clearly isn't female, he has a goatee and acts like your typical Japanese Okama."

You realize he creates the dialouge, yes? He ants Twice and everyone to refer to Magne as a female, because he's created a transwoman character. thats like saying "He wanted a male character, why didn't he just make Tiger a biological male?"

It's called representation. What you call "Genderstudies."

And now, for the overall verdict -

A Wiki's job is not to serve your idea of gender, and no one elses. Kohei calls the shots, and has made every character refer to Magne as a female. We don't get to decide these things, and nor do you. Kohei does - Magne being refered to as a male this long was, in my opinion, a mistake, since we've known for a while that she has been refered to as a female. Nwo that we have some soid information, the right call has been made and she is being recognised as by her gender, not her biological sex..

This isn't even an argument anymore. No one here seriously cares if you like it or not.