Talk:One For All: Full Cowl

Name
I think the name should be changed to Full Cowling rather than Full Cowl. A cowl is something entirely different than cowling and it seems Horikoshi was trying to get across. Meshack (talk) 17:31, August 31, 2017 (UTC)

No, leave the name as is. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 04:40, September 1, 2017 (UTC)


 * Do you know what a cowl is? Meshack (talk) 01:04, September 2, 2017 (UTC)

Yes, but if you feel it is/will be misunderstood, then add it as trivia. Dragonus Nesha (talk) 16:58, September 2, 2017 (UTC)

Why are we using Cowl if every other source uses Cowling? That should probably tell you something Meshack (talk) 13:15, September 14, 2017 (UTC)

Why are you using Cowling if the author uses Cowl? Dragonus Nesha (talk) 20:57, January 29, 2018 (UTC)

Alright! I never saw this. If I did then it was an oversight. Changing it back to Cowl but there needs to be a reference so everyone knows that Horikoshi wants it to be Cowl instead of Cowling Meshack (talk) 21:46, January 29, 2018 (UTC)

The actual word used is "ka-u-ru." Cowling would be "ka-u-ri-n-gu." There is no reason to be using Cowling over Cowl. Salvadorzombie (talk) 15:41, June 10, 2018 (UTC)

Whoever can change the actual title, it needs to be changed to Cowl instead of Cowling. Apparently someone changed it back to Cowling, when it's literally Cowl. Salvadorzombie (talk) 15:42, June 10, 2018 (UTC)

For the record, this matter was discussed at length among Salvadorzombie, Desboy96, Damage3245, and others, where it was decided that, in lieu of evidence to the contrary, we'll assume: (a) Horikoshi fully intended for the move to be named "Full Cowl"; (b) Viz were not correcting a mistake on Horikoshi's part when they chose to translate the move as "Full Cowling"; and (c) Viz mistranslated the move name. puxlit (talk) 18:24, June 11, 2018 (UTC)

It’s not Viz trying to correct the name. Yes Horikoshi wrote Cowl but officially in Japan and in English localization, Cowling is used over Cowl. Meshack (talk) 05:23, June 13, 2018 (UTC)


 * There is no consistent English translation. Viz has used not only "Full Cowling" but also "Full Cloak" (see chapters 62 & 64), and Crunchyroll has subbed episode 48 with "Full Cowl" instead of "Full Cowling". puxlit (talk) 07:56, June 13, 2018 (UTC)
 * Meshack - you're deliberately ignoring the fact that Horikoshi himself 1) uses Cowl, and 2) even writes it out, IN ENGLISH, as Cowl in the manga at one point. Anything ancillary, officially licensed product or not, is a *mistranslation*. You are actively defending a mistranslation. There's no reason for you to be doing that, even if you think "Cowling" sounds better. It's the wrong word. Accuracy, as well as the spirit of the translation, matters. There is no reasoning for calling it Cowling. Even the instance where someone claimed that it was meant to be referring to the "cowling" on a train or vehicle, that word itself isn't the official term either. The term is "cowl unit," not "cowling." The word is Cowl. Cowl is the correct translation. Even if the Japanese company uses the wrong word, it's still the wrong word, given that Horikoshi himself has definitively used Cowl in every situation. Spoken, katakana/hiragana, even English. When he writes it out, it's COWL. End of story. Salvadorzombie (talk) 02:45, July 8, 2018 (UTC)
 * Meshack - you're deliberately ignoring the fact that Horikoshi himself 1) uses Cowl, and 2) even writes it out, IN ENGLISH, as Cowl in the manga at one point. Anything ancillary, officially licensed product or not, is a *mistranslation*. You are actively defending a mistranslation. There's no reason for you to be doing that, even if you think "Cowling" sounds better. It's the wrong word. Accuracy, as well as the spirit of the translation, matters. There is no reasoning for calling it Cowling. Even the instance where someone claimed that it was meant to be referring to the "cowling" on a train or vehicle, that word itself isn't the official term either. The term is "cowl unit," not "cowling." The word is Cowl. Cowl is the correct translation. Even if the Japanese company uses the wrong word, it's still the wrong word, given that Horikoshi himself has definitively used Cowl in every situation. Spoken, katakana/hiragana, even English. When he writes it out, it's COWL. End of story. Salvadorzombie (talk) 02:45, July 8, 2018 (UTC)

Why does the name keep getting changing back? The official name with the subs and Viz is Full Cowling. Isn’t that the way this wiki is going? Meshack (talk) 22:50, July 7, 2018 (UTC)

Incidentally, I see that Crunchyroll have gone back to using "cowling" over "cowl" in Episode 52, which means the argument that Crunchyroll have corrected a "mistake" no longer holds water. Dialogue: 0,0:21:36.85,0:21:39.61,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,If I'm worried about my arms,\Nthen I'll use my legs!&#x0a;Dialogue: 0,0:21:40.61,0:21:42.90,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,One For All: Full Cowling...&#x0a;Dialogue: 0,0:21:42.90,0:21:44.46,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,...Shoot Style!&#x0a;Dialogue: 0,0:21:47.70,0:21:49.33,Default,,0000,0000,0000,,That's right. puxlit (talk) 01:59, July 15, 2018 (UTC)
 * At present, the MoS has been updated to exempt the "Viz-only translations" rule in cases where (the editors) deem the translation to be dubious. (For example, "Starting Line" would seem like a reasonable deviation to "Start Line" because it's more idiomatic, and so would not be deemed dubious.) Until we can ask Caleb Cook (@CDCubed) why they chose "cowling"/"cloak" over "cowl" (which is what the katakana spells), we're deferring to what the source Japanese material thinks the English localization should be. (If, for instance, we find out the deviation was intentional, and just a matter of it sounding better in English, then I think we'd go back to "cowling" and note down the rationale under trivia.) puxlit (talk) 01:23, July 8, 2018 (UTC)
 * Meshack - this was discussed at length. 1) The word written is "ka-u-ru," "ka-u-ri-n-gu" would be Cowling, which Horikoshi has specifically never called it. 2) In fact, in one of the volume's omake sections, he has various characters with other characters' Quirks. Itsuka Kendo has One For All, and specifically says, in English, written by Horikoshi himself, "One For All, Full Cowl!" The author clearly intends for it to be Cowl and not Cowling. Honestly, there's no reason for it to be changed back since it's a pure mistranslation, whether intentional or unintentional. Frankly, Caleb Cook's reasoning and opinion on the matter doesn't come into play. It's not his job to edit the author's work. The word is definitively Cowl, not Cowling. In fact, even the Crunchyroll subtitles in the most recent usage have switched to Cowl. The error is being corrected. And honestly, whether or not someone thinks one sounds better than the other doesn't factor into what would be used. Starting Line would be an example of a situation where, if the author actually meant Start Line, then it should probably be Start Line regardless, as well. But this is not that situation. Cowling is the wrong translation, and it has been corrected. Salvadorzombie (talk) 02:39, July 8, 2018 (UTC)
 * Any translation involves some degree of editorializing, and nobody should be expecting Viz to provide literal translations; we should expect them to provide fluent translations. Similarly, nobody should expect Horikoshi to be fluent in English. If they wrote "Start Line" but meant "Starting Line", we should use "Starting Line". If they meant to use a word that means cowl (in the sense of a cloak), but "cowling" sounds better (because it can be read with a more natural stress pattern), then we should be pragmatic. In lieu of direct confirmation from Horikoshi, we should implictly trust that Caleb et al. know what they're doing; they have better contacts than we do.
 * Any translation involves some degree of editorializing, and nobody should be expecting Viz to provide literal translations; we should expect them to provide fluent translations. Similarly, nobody should expect Horikoshi to be fluent in English. If they wrote "Start Line" but meant "Starting Line", we should use "Starting Line". If they meant to use a word that means cowl (in the sense of a cloak), but "cowling" sounds better (because it can be read with a more natural stress pattern), then we should be pragmatic. In lieu of direct confirmation from Horikoshi, we should implictly trust that Caleb et al. know what they're doing; they have better contacts than we do.
 * 1) Regardless of literal or "fluent" (what I think we both agree would mean "matching the essence of the meaning"), "Cowl" is not disputed. It is the word being used by Horikoshi in every single version - text, audio, Japanese and English (when written by him).
 * 2) I personally agree with you on Starting Line. It's what was clearly intended. The same goes for Cowl. Cowl is what was clearly intended. Horikoshi himself has written Cowl in English in Volume 16's omake section. The work spelled is "kauru" which is "cowl." Every instance of a technical word is "cowl," and not "cowling." And whether or not it "sounds better" is a matter of subjective opinion, and in fact does not factor in. Personally, cowl sounds much better to me. But that's not the point - the point is that the word used is cowl, and cowling is a straight-up mistranslation.
 * 2) I personally agree with you on Starting Line. It's what was clearly intended. The same goes for Cowl. Cowl is what was clearly intended. Horikoshi himself has written Cowl in English in Volume 16's omake section. The work spelled is "kauru" which is "cowl." Every instance of a technical word is "cowl," and not "cowling." And whether or not it "sounds better" is a matter of subjective opinion, and in fact does not factor in. Personally, cowl sounds much better to me. But that's not the point - the point is that the word used is cowl, and cowling is a straight-up mistranslation.

3) We have direct confirmation from Horikoshi. He spells the word as "Cowl" in every single instance, *including English*. And frankly, "implicitly trusting" any translator that gets something so wrong (as Caleb has) is clearly not the right thing to do in order to reach the most accurate intended meaning.
 * 4) I saw the most recent episode as well, and I'm disappointed in them. This is all speculation (since none of us work at Crunchyroll or Viz), so supposing as to why it was Cowl the last time and Cowling again now is pure mental masturbation. As it is, the most accurate word, technically and in the essence of the meaning, is Cowl.Salvadorzombie (talk) 08:17, July 15, 2018 (UTC)

The wiki uses what English localizations use. Even Japanese merchandise uses Cowling so I don't understand? Meshack (talk) 18:58, July 14, 2018 (UTC)

Here's a transcript of a DM conversation I had with Salvadorzombie, for the public record. Whilst I don't normally provide transcripts without permission, they blocked me before I had a chance to ask. puxlit (talk) 08:43, July 15, 2018 (UTC)